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Talk:Death Penalty in Rapture
When ? Its not really clear when this was enacted. It could be before Kashmir Incident (though most likely AFTER the City is Cutoff from the Surface around 1952) It could be in response to the inability to 'get' Fontaines Smuggling ring ... upping the ante or there could be after Kashmir when smuggling continued (maybe Fontaine had preplaced some resources for his 'revolution' or possibly there were others doing smuggling the whole time. We see the corpses on public display labeled 'smuggler' but thats in 1960 - year after Kashmir (and the audio diary is heard when jack is there, made when Ryan still alive etc...) The game writers trying to make a dig at Ryan as being a paranoid to impliment such a thing ? (or like certain countries who have to build a wall to keep their people in ?) But then Cold War politics and 'ant people' mentalities (remember Ryan BUILD a whole city to get away from them) being real to the people at that time could easily justify it NOT being paranoia. 12:55, August 4, 2014 (UTC) :Logically it was before 1958, but what the Hell does it matter when capital punishment was enacted?! The fact is it was. :"Make a dig?" Are you serious? He instituted the Death Penalty for something like smuggling. Yes it's a crime, but it's not a violent crime. An unprecedneted overreaction especially considering that studies have shown that the threat of capital punishment does not prevent criminal behavior. All he did was scare the participant who might've been willing to ccoperate away from turning on Fontaine. Amnesty would've been a better attempt. :I'm not defending the smugglers, but really now, what would've happened if Rapture was found out (which there's no proof would've happened had the smuggling ring had continued)? The Americans would dive down, storm the city, slit the throats of the populace, and take over the city? :Unownshipper (talk) 23:47, August 4, 2014 (UTC) :Treason isnt a violent crime either is it ?? But it indirectly can lead to millions of deaths/misery in real life, no ? (or what Ryan feared -- the end of Rapture by Surface powers and meddlers and parasitism) :Did these studies exist in the 40s ? When the death penalty was very common? If not, then wasnt 'overreacting'. :Nothing says there cant be plea bargaining or 'turning states evidence' for possible witnesses -- actually might make it look even better if Fontaine was executed and no longer around to 'pull strings from prison' to have the witness killed... :Think Cold War. Think Post WW2 population who know what shits surface governments can be. :High tech stuff in Rapture - Russians would want it or want to deny it to the Americans, Americans the same against Russians, Powerful unethical people (all other countries) want it to become rich. Worst of all Lawyers getting involved (heh). In any case disruptions and potential danger to Rapture and its citizens who wanted to get away from all that. :Think it just takes one nuke depth charge (we had them, the Russians had them then) to deny Rapture to whichever enemy.... :Yes, lets leave the 'being careful of the secrecy' in the hands of criminals and Raptures fate to their whim. :Oh and the 'When' is important because this is a fairly strong measure which is more understandable if it happens AFTER the Civil War starts, when things get more 'irregular' and Strong Measures would be called for by the majority of the citizens to handle the emergency. : : 11:18, August 5, 2014 (UTC) ::Why would it be initiated after the Civil War had begun when the Smuggling epidemic was occurring up until Fontaine's "death?" in '58? ::Unownshipper (talk) 01:14, August 6, 2014 (UTC) ::The Civil War could have less enforcement with all the 'distractions' going on, and Atlas might have to get his supplies for his followers in alternate ways if Ryan controls/restricts the legitimate sources -- a starved army falls apart quite fast even when 'living off the land' (stealing everything in sight) even in a guerilla/insurgency type war. ::Weapons from the outside in particular could be significant to prevent the rebels getting. ::We also dont know how many other (non-Fontaine) smuggling operations might have existed and with him (apparently) out of the way they might expand to fill the vacuum (he may even have suppressed them actively to protect HIS cash-cow). ::Initiating it before the War would be a bigger thing/deal/trouble (in that state of normalcy), when it might be more easily accepted as a war measure (like the difference between 'Treason in a Time Of War' vs not during a war) :: 08:15, August 6, 2014 (UTC) ::::Though it is ''likely ''that Atlas had taken operation or at least smuggled goods on his own (Since it seemed like Peach Wilkin's was the area's "boss" and distrusted Atlas), there is no further evidence. Smuggling was largely a Fontaine operation, so Ryan would have implemented the death penalty towards smuggling then. Why would Ryan implement it if once Fontaine was "dead", he had his men confiscate the property? Not only that, the smuggling operation had been in effect since the creation of Fontaine Fisheries, so why would Ryan wait until the Civil War when things were already going crazy and a majority of people abandoning their posts, etc. And Ryan is still concerned about Rapture being exposed to the world above than about the Civil War happening. Besides, with the war going on, I'm pretty sure smuggling would be on the back of his mind. ::::It was probably meant as a safety measure, since it is unsure how many were indeed hanged, and the law would have been publicized just to scare the public from smuggling or purchasing smuggled goods. The public address announcements against smuggling existed before the Civil War (You can hear the announcements in Burial at Sea). Plus, in Peach's removed audio diary, Smuggling is a Crime, he still speaks of Fontaine when talking about the death penalty. Tricksteroffools (talk) 09:29, August 6, 2014 (UTC) ::::I dont know if 'removed' content is considered 'canon' (should have left it in if it was part of the story - we could alway use more game content.). ::::Anyway nothing says that Fontaine's was the only smuggling operation or that Fontaine hadnt shifted some trusted minions away to some secondary site to continue after "Fontaine's death" to provide resources for Atlas (the whole scheme was prearranged enough for his plastic surgery for himself and his double and no doubt he made other prearrangemenst like stockpiling ADAM fro his 'rebellion' -- you just dont get that much by killing Little Sisters). Ryan would be concerned with Atlas getting supplied via smuggling. ::::I lean towards the Death Penalty coming while Fontaine was still alive (before the Shootout) with events like Johnny Topside finding his way in being worrisome, and as a way to shake up Fontaines confidence and the people who worked for him . :::: 15:17, August 6, 2014 (UTC)